tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post6191345509665449550..comments2024-01-30T04:32:47.585-05:00Comments on The Cooler: When Arthur Left Camelot: Kings RansomJason Bellamyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18150199580478147196noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-15190023672031539702009-10-08T15:20:28.585-04:002009-10-08T15:20:28.585-04:00Just had a chance to watch the doc this morning. ...Just had a chance to watch the doc this morning. Knowing that this comes from ESPN, I was impressed -- it looks like they are actually going to give the directors carte blanche to make these as they see fit. There wasn't much (if any) of the over-majestic background music, low-angle shots, and deep focus that they tend to overuse in their typical doc-type pieces.<br /><br />As for the story itself, even as a 10-year old, I remember it feeling like a big deal at the time and it did make me interested in hockey (partly due to collecting sports cards -- Gretzky suddenly made hockey cards a hot seller) for the first time ever.<br /><br />Considering Gretzky's quiet demeanor, Berg actually did a decent job of getting him to say a few things, although there were times it felt like he was leading him with those questions.<br /><br />Overall, a good show and a novel concept. Something I'll definitely be following along with.Troy Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14843741571724231174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-36583965809557225602009-10-07T21:03:29.870-04:002009-10-07T21:03:29.870-04:00Whom do you believe about that quote or misquote a...<i>Whom do you believe about that quote or misquote attributed to Pocklington on Gretzky -- the owner or the sportswriter?</i><br /><br />Well, I should say from the jump that I'm close with lots of sportswriters and used to work in that field. I've come across people in that business who don't seem to understand journalistic ethics at all, but I can't even imagine the worst of the worst just fabricating a quote out of thin air. It's just so counter to the reporter process in which you dig and dig and dig for a quote. <br /><br />So to that degree I side with the sportswriter. However ...<br /><br />Sportswriters certainly get caught up in the quest for a headline. So often the juicy 5 percent of an interview will become "the story" just because it's juicy. Thus, what hits the paper is blown out of proportion, as a result. So with all that said, here's what I think ...<br /><br />I think Pocklington gave an image-saving interview in which he did nothing but glorify Gretzky about 95 percent of the time. But, wanting to stick up for himself and/or justify it to himself, he couldn't quite resist and so he spouted off a few things that the reporter used out of context or -- quite possibly -- formed into a better quote than the one that left Pocklington's lips. And that quote became the story.<br /><br />So in a sense, they're both telling the truth. Pocklington probably said what the reporter wrote, but Pocklington is probably also correct that the article in no way reflected the overall spirit of the interview...and quite likely the reporter knows that.<br /><br />That's just a guess. If in fact one of them is totally lying, it's Pocklington. He'd have sued the paper if it fabricated a story with that kind of significance.Jason Bellamyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150199580478147196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-6844814478771773982009-10-07T16:31:04.652-04:002009-10-07T16:31:04.652-04:00By the way, Jason, I gotta ask you: Whom do you be...By the way, Jason, I gotta ask you: Whom do you believe about that quote or misquote attributed to Pocklington on Gretzky -- the owner or the sportwriter?Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-63098753154611638592009-10-07T16:19:12.753-04:002009-10-07T16:19:12.753-04:00I don't mind the insertions per se. I just fin...I don't mind the insertions per se. I just find Berg repellent. Levinson is fine, though. Ditto Shelton.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-8514515307493900732009-10-07T15:52:50.381-04:002009-10-07T15:52:50.381-04:00Better get used to that if you're gonna watch ...<i>Better get used to that if you're gonna watch the other films in ESPN's 30 for 30 series</i><br /><br />I literally found out about the ESPN 30 for 30 series yesterday when I saw an ad for it on a TV at the gym (and, of course, later in Jason's piece.) So, I guess I'll retract my complaint about the director injecting himself into the mix. However, I stand by gripe about the Gretzky's staged "reaction" shots :) and my contention that Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr ARE the two "greatest" players - sorry, I couldn't resist that last one ;)Matt Maulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786715057322458327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-64218070128948688482009-10-07T15:35:01.987-04:002009-10-07T15:35:01.987-04:00(And of course he would find a way to insert himse...<i>(And of course he would find a way to insert himself in the narrative.)</i><br /><br />Better get used to that if you're gonna watch the other films in ESPN's 30 for 30 series, then. In three of the first four films, at least, the director (Barry Levinson and Mike Tollin are the other two) is a significant on-camera presence, conducting interviews with the principal figures.Alan Sepinwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-2336536333461376392009-10-07T09:15:59.207-04:002009-10-07T09:15:59.207-04:00Walt: Thanks for the comment. Pujols might mean as...Walt: Thanks for the comment. Pujols might mean as much to the fans of St. Louis as Gretzky meant to fans in Edmonton, but it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario in which a Pujols deal could impact baseball the way Gretzky's trade impacted the NHL. Unless maybe Pujols was traded to the first MLB team in the Dominican Republic or something.<br /><br />Matt: The Meryl Streep thing kills me!<br /><br />Craig & Matt: I'll be interested to see how my opinion changes over the course of the "30 for 30" series, but for the moment I'm giving Berg a pass for inserting himself into the film, because I think the intended spirit behind the series suggests that these are personal stories that the directors are sharing with us. In other words, director involvement might prove to be the norm.<br /><br />Later on, with a larger sample, we can debate whether that's a good thing. For the moment, though, I decided to hold on a similar knee-jerk response to seeing Berg in the film. Also, to Berg's credit, he gets Gretzky to talk comfortably. If that's the best way to get the guy to open up, I won't fault him for it.<br /><br />As for the staged scenes: at least they are few. As bookends, I didn't find them too offensive.Jason Bellamyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150199580478147196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-58996174105881637132009-10-07T08:39:16.052-04:002009-10-07T08:39:16.052-04:00I mostly liked it. Certainly better than the gard...I mostly liked it. Certainly better than the garden variety TV sports doc. But I agree that Berg was too much a part of it. And the bits of Gretsky today at the rink (in a suit) looking around with various expressions was too staged.Matt Maulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786715057322458327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-9457032560629099232009-10-06T21:16:28.894-04:002009-10-06T21:16:28.894-04:00I just watched "Kings Ransom" and found ...I just watched "Kings Ransom" and found it engrossing despite my distate for Berg, who directs with the same flashy obviousness he does his lousy movies. (And of course he would find a way to insert himself in the narrative.) Looking forward to Ron Shelton's segment.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-44216880279558741652009-10-06T15:16:04.252-04:002009-10-06T15:16:04.252-04:00I totally agree that this is one of those era span...I totally agree that this is one of those era spanning sports debates that can never really be settled.<br /><br />Having said that, there's a huge purist school of thought which acknowledges Gretzky's huge talent and the role he played in increasing awareness for hockey BUT holds that his stats were inflated by such things as a) being able to depend upon people like Mark Messier run interference for him and b) an unspoken consensus among the players to cut Gretzky some slack on the ice for the good of the league because of his popularity (hence the "cherry picker" tag).<br /><br />For what it's worth, I've met both Gordie Howe and Wayne Gretzky. Howe, a large man, was just as impressive when viewed up close as from a distance while playing. My reaction to Gretzky was just the reverse (in fact we used to joke in the 80's about confusing him with Meryl Streep). So based on that and the fact that I'm from the Detroit area, I'm sure my judgment is somewhat clouded. :)Matt Maulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786715057322458327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-12395598266781927202009-10-06T15:15:07.558-04:002009-10-06T15:15:07.558-04:00... Barbara Kopple, New York-raised, will examine ...<i>... Barbara Kopple, New York-raised, will examine the reign of George Steinbrenner.</i><br /><br />I think I'd rather see a director from Cleveland examine the rise (instead of reign, which we all know a lot about) of Steinbrenner. He was born and raised in Cleveland, after all, and even tried (and failed) to buy the Indians before he bought the Yankees.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-70216043991394865182009-10-06T15:14:42.744-04:002009-10-06T15:14:42.744-04:00I think the same impact would be felt if Albert Pu...I think the same impact would be felt if Albert Pujols were traded from or left the Cardinals. He's that big in St. Louis.<br /><br />I'm not a big hockey fan but I remember when this all went down. Can't wait to see the documentary.Waltnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-29925687604392918382009-10-06T14:12:52.923-04:002009-10-06T14:12:52.923-04:00Fernando: Right. The Herschel Walker trade was hug...Fernando: Right. The Herschel Walker trade was huge in size and hype, but it didn't have the lasting impact, nor did it match the emotion, of the Gretzky deal. Walker didn't mean as much to Dallas as Gretzky meant to Edmonton, nor did he mean as much to football in the Midwest as Gretzky meant to hockey in the West.<br /><br />As for the "greatest" debate, very good point on the significance of ESPN on Gretzky's legend. No doubt, that played a part. On the other hand, in all sports there are these old-time, pre-ESPN legends that are mostly impossible to dethrone. (Works the same way in movies, too.) There's an advantage to being great <i>first</i>. So in some sense it evens out -- provided that ESPN isn't the one assessing the greatness, of course.Jason Bellamyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150199580478147196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-2037878377812912462009-10-06T14:02:37.780-04:002009-10-06T14:02:37.780-04:00J.D.: Very true. The film focuses more on the Edmo...J.D.: Very true. The film focuses more on the Edmonton fans (you kind of have to infer the rest), hence my phrasing. This is one of those areas, per my review, when I wish the doc could have gone into more detail.<br /><br />Matt: I left this at the House, too, but in the interest of addressing it here ...<br /><br />I'm sure you won't be the only one wanting to wave a broken beer bottle at that description. Originally I qualified it, but -- admitting that I'm not a hockey historian -- I decided Gretzky was inarguably in the conversation and that was close enough. I'm all for sports bar fights, but I don't care enough about this one to draw blood. Maybe a future "30 for 30" doc will bring out a good brawl. For now we'll just have to flip each other the finger (kindly, of course).<br /><br />So on that note I'll say this: If it's Howe OR Orr, then it might as well be Howe OR Orr OR Gretzky. Close enough, I figure.<br /><br /><br />Thanks for the comments, fellas. I'll be curious to see what you think of <i>Kings Ransom</i>.Jason Bellamyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150199580478147196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-29489005187764539842009-10-06T14:01:08.920-04:002009-10-06T14:01:08.920-04:00Trying to think of a bigger trade but can't (o...Trying to think of a bigger trade but can't (only thing I can think of is Hershall Walker to Minnesota, but that didn't change the landscape of the sport like Gretzky to L.A. did). <br /><br />Gretzky greatest player? I'd say yes when u combine the stats with the superstar status. Its not that he's a superstar, its that he took the league/sport to new heights while he was in the game. Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr were superstars too, but they didn't captivate the nation like Gretzky did. Though Gretzky rise does coincidence with the rise of sports in general (ESPN/other sports outlets becoming national/24 hours/ominpresent definitely helped cement that).Fernandonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-68833401723786035562009-10-06T13:50:28.858-04:002009-10-06T13:50:28.858-04:00I just saw an ad for this on ESPN and am geeked to...I just saw an ad for this on ESPN and am geeked to see it. However, I take issue with this statement:<br /><br /><i>This is Wayne Gretzky, the greatest hockey player of all time</i><br /><br />While Gretzky may have been hockey's biggest superstar, he's NOT it's "greatest player." That distinction would go to either Gordie Howe or Bobby Orr.<br /><br />(let the bar fight begin)Matt Maulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786715057322458327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-64270860211323582152009-10-06T13:47:08.320-04:002009-10-06T13:47:08.320-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Matt Maulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786715057322458327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1163321594858726822.post-3724710862479768022009-10-06T09:27:43.499-04:002009-10-06T09:27:43.499-04:00"Gretzky was such a bitter pill for Oilers fa..."Gretzky was such a bitter pill for Oilers fans to swallow."<br /><br />Not just that but also a bitter pill for Canadians in general to swallow. I remember when this happened and the shockwaves were felt throughout the country and almost a feeling of betrayal that he was leaving his home country for a lucrative paycheck in the US of A. The same thing happened on a much smaller scale when Eric Lindros forsake playing for Quebec for a more lucrative contract in the US as he too was touted as Gretzky's heir apparent. Of course, look what happened to him.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164105442273577128noreply@blogger.com